Disney Jollywood Nights is the brand new laborious ticket Christmas occasion with particular vacation leisure, meals & beverage, and an adult-oriented ambiance in keeping with Walt Disney World. This evaluations our expertise with the inaugural social gathering, masking each the brilliant spots and what the heck went incorrect because the occasion primarily melted down. We’ll additionally deal with whether or not it’s definitely worth the cash, how a lot you’ll be able to accomplish, and my step-by-step expertise.
Earlier than we get all the way down to brass tacks with the assessment and what went incorrect (and proper!), let’s begin with primary background. Disney Jollywood Nights is the brand-new individually ticketed, limited-capacity Christmas social gathering from 8:30 p.m. to 12:30 a.m. on 10 choose nights from November 11 to December 20, 2023. Ticket costs vary from $159 to $179 per particular person, relying upon the date.
Jollywood Nights is billed by Walt Disney World as being a “glam vacation social gathering” and a “swanky Hollywood bash crammed with merriment, music and spirited good occasions.” The adult-focused occasion promised a extra refined vacation vibe, sights of glowing décor, sounds of recent beats over basic vacation songs, tastes of craft cocktails and decadent dishes. Disney Jollywood Nights is nostalgic and it’s glitz and glam galore. These are all ways in which Walt Disney World itself marketed the occasion.
Within the curiosity of full disclosure, I used to be invited by Walt Disney World to attend the primary night time of Disney Jollywood Nights. Nevertheless, I had already bought my very own ticket after I acquired the invite, so I paid for admission. I had some free meals as a part of a preview, attended a artistic Q&A panel, and had entry to reserved seating for the exhibits. (I wasn’t in a position to make use of the seats for one present as a consequence of arriving too late and had seats 5 rows again from my non-media pals within the different.)
Most importantly, I didn’t must do common occasion check-in. Judging by the lengthy traces I encountered outdoors the park and noticed inside at check-in, this was a significant supply of friction that deserves mentioning. I feel this assessment just about speaks for itself, however thought I’d point out all of that for the sake of transparency.
On the be aware of friction and lengthy traces, we’d as properly begin there in our evaluation of Disney Jollywood Nights…
Lengthy Traces & Logistics – From an operational perspective, nearly every thing that might’ve gone incorrect in the course of the inaugural Disney Jollywood Nights did go incorrect. It was an entire meltdown–chaos, crowds, and confusion. Solid Members didn’t understand how sure venues would function or gave incorrect info, lengthy traces shaped for just about something unique to the occasion, and a too-high share of paying visitors left upset and underwhelmed, spending extra time ready than doing.
What’s most irritating about that is that it was simply foreseeable. When you haven’t already, I’d encourage you to revisit Why You Ought to NOT Do Disney Jollywood Nights Christmas Celebration. Apart from three paragraphs written within the instant aftermath of the occasion, that put up was penned again in June. It reads as fairly prescient now, however actually, it actually isn’t that exceptional.
Particularly, it mentioned how logistical failures play out on a constant and predictable at Walt Disney World, instant crimson flags I noticed with this occasion, and the way it was a possible excellent storm of issues. That it could be not possible for Walt Disney World to venture demand dynamics, crowdflow, and the logistics of the numerous shifting items.
It irritates me to no finish that, from the skin trying in, I can determine these items inside days of an occasion being introduced–with out the good thing about inside info. But Walt Disney World can’t do the identical with months of conferences and planning and no matter it’s that they do.
I’m only one dude on the web. They’ve a whole lot of individuals engaged on this. The distinction is that I’ve been attending Walt Disney World occasions for over a decade, and have realized rather a lot from the great, dangerous and ugly of these. (I actually marvel what number of occasions Villains Unleashed got here up of their inner conferences, or if nobody continues to be at Walt Disney World who labored on that debacle.)
Within the days since Disney Jollywood Nights, I’ve seen some followers who really feel compelled to defend the corporate declare issues going incorrect was the fault of influencers, bloggers, and vloggers who disproportionately did sure issues. And it’s definitely true that our demo has totally different priorities from common visitors. However we largely did the occasion how Walt Disney World marketed it–with an emphasis on leisure, meals & beverage. The corporate itself selected to not model this as After Hours, presumably for a cause!
Furthermore, it’s not like our existence is a few secret that caught the corporate without warning. I don’t see how the night time one meltdown might be blamed on anybody apart from Walt Disney World, which is now 0 for two on its final two themed events at Disney’s Hollywood Studios. When you assume subsequent nights are magically going to go higher with out modifications by the corporate, you’re in for a impolite awakening.
No Contingency Plans – Disney Jollywood Nights is held in Florida, a spot identified for its famously dry local weather. Oh wait. Clearly, Walt Disney World can’t be blamed for the climate. There was lots of rain within the final hour of night time one, and that impacts sure issues. That’s unavoidable, and it additionally occurs in every day operations.
Much less excusable is having no plan for rain and simply, I assume, hoping for one of the best. There have been a bunch of meet & greets with uncommon characters, all of which have been held outdoor in open air. When the rain got here down, they left and have been performed for the remainder of the night time. Character meet & greets are already low capability and several other had hour-plus waits, however that was worsened by them being unavailable for the final hour. Identical goes for the leisure that was additionally outdoor and in addition not relocated.
Disney Jollywood Nights was already too brief to perform an inexpensive quantity of its substantive choices, and it definitely didn’t assist that one-quarter of the social gathering’s distinctive choices didn’t occur for probably the most half. What would the plan have been if rain began within the first hour of the occasion? Think about how packed the few issues that have been indoors would’ve been then!
Occasion Particular Meals & Drinks – There are eating areas all through Disney’s Hollywood Studios promoting party-exclusive meals and drinks. There have been truly numerous these choices, as you’ll be able to see from the Full Meals Information & Restaurant Reservation Information for the Jollywood Nights Christmas Celebration.
As famous above, I used to be in a position to pattern a number of the objects served at Disney Jollywood Nights. Most of it didn’t wow me, particularly not the Dinosaur Gertie cookie (I can’t consider folks stood in line ~half-hour for that). With that stated, I additionally wasn’t there for the meals–it was an already brief occasion and I figured that will eat up an excessive amount of time.
Regardless, the one factor that truly did shock me was how short-staffed Walt Disney World was at meals & beverage areas. For alcohol kiosks, of all issues, to have such lengthy traces that they unintentionally discourage consuming is wild. Given the markup, that’s principally Disney leaving free cash on the desk. I by no means thought I’d dwell to see the day! I’d additionally assume that’s one of many quickest, best, and high-priority issues that Walt Disney World will rectify. I can’t think about lengthy traces for booze might be an evening two criticism, however perhaps I want a greater creativeness. Talking of which…
Twilight Soirée on the Tip Prime Membership – Walt Disney World advertises this as a swingin’ celebration within the courtyard of The Hollywood Tower Resort. Right here, you’ll be able to sip cocktails and unwind in type whereas a dwell band swoons and croons vacation tunes.
The primary of two expectations versus actuality misses, that is like advertising and marketing a swingin’ soiree with swoonin’ and stylish croonin’ solely to have the Driving Crooner be the leisure. Sure, it could be objectively superior to see the Driving Crooner, however is that basically what was promised. You certain about that?
On this case, the band was nice and gave a fascinating performances. If all you wished to do was watch them, and that was the case for me, what Walt Disney World supplied was arguably adequate. As an lively expertise, this was a bit lifeless, which I assume is considerably becoming for an otherworldly soiree.
With that stated, I feel it could be a tricky activity to really flip this right into a swinging soiree–what number of Walt Disney World visitors are literally going to decorate the half and dance? I don’t know, however I’m guessing the reply is “not sufficient to provide this the best vibe.” The factor is, we don’t know as a result of the setup didn’t facilitate something however standing round in a cramped viewing space.
This doesn’t even start to deal with the bar state of affairs right here, which was a primary drinks served from a glorified out of doors merchandising cart that had a 30+ minute estimated wait. (I say estimated as a result of the road moved at a glacial tempo–certainly one of our pals was in it, however bailed after making zero progress after quarter-hour.) The excellent news, I assume, is that it must be fairly straightforward to successfully double capability by bringing a second ODV again right here earlier than the second social gathering.
Jazzy Holidays at The Hollywood Brown Derby – This iconic restaurant transforms right into a limited-capacity easy jazz joint the place you’ll be able to take pleasure in vacation music, craft cocktails and an unique menu of sunshine bites in a classy setting.
Disney additionally beforehand described Jazzy Holidays on the Brown Derby as being impressed by New York Metropolis piano bars. The Hollywood Brown Derby restaurant was to be changed into a sing-along piano bar with a piano and accompanying singer, performing songs from the ’20s, ‘30s, ‘40s, and ‘50s. The area was to be remodeled into “a swinging speakeasy social gathering such as you’ve by no means seen, one thing you might solely discover in a giant metropolis.” Usually a desk service restaurant, the area was to be arrange otherwise and embody a number of bars.
Virtually none of that occurred. Jazzy Holidays did have a pianist, that half is true. And his piano did have garland on it, so test the field for adornment (singular) within the Brown Derby! That was actually it. Though nitpicky, one other odd selection was to play Disney music in equal quantities as vacation songs.
When you occurred to time Jazzy Holidays poorly and be seated proper after a set ended, you may not even notice something particular was taking place, as no Christmas music–not even a background loop–was enjoying in the course of the downtime.
Though the competitors is fierce, this in all probability is the most important disappointment of Jollywood Nights just by advantage of the time dedication, issue in accessing the area, and expectations vs. actuality. No offense to the musician, who was proficient and gave nice performances, however one man doesn’t make a speakeasy social gathering except that fella’s identify is Jay Gatsby.
The one silver lining right here is that I did buy meals (not desirous to be impolite) and the sliders have been improbable. However that’s not sufficient to justify doing Jazzy Holidays. Save your self the stress and time, and skip this.
Ambiance – Past the 2 limited-capacity choices underwhelming, the most important misfire of Disney Jollywood Nights for me was the vibe. One of many issues we routinely speak up about Mickey’s Very Merry Christmas Celebration is the distinctive ambiance–our favourite factor in regards to the occasion is solely being there.
Seeing the snowstorm on Primary Road, listening to Jolly Previous Saint Nicholas in Fantasyland, having fun with the moody lighting and particular projections, free-roaming characters having enjoyable–all of it simply places a smile on my face. And that’s not simply nostalgia speaking. Mickey’s Very Merry Christmas Celebration has mastered its temper, and that’s a giant cause why so many individuals love that social gathering.
Against this, a number of areas of Disney’s Hollywood Studios felt like full ghost cities. And never in a great way. Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge was so desolate that Solid Members have been virtually begging visitors to enter Oga’s Cantina. Toy Story Land had just about nothing happening for Disney Jollywood Nights. The 2 hottest elements of the park supplied nothing.
Even lands that ostensibly have been taking part in Disney Jollywood Nights have been fairly unhappy. We don’t usually spend a lot time in Animation Courtyard–as a result of why would we?!–and this occasion was a superb reminder of that. It felt like a useless mall attempting to reinvent itself by including a Spirit
Halloween Christmas. The Commissary Lane “social gathering” was not fairly as unhappy, but in addition nothing particular and really low-energy. Ditto Pixar Place.
Echo Lake was a vibrant spot, however not due to Disney Jollywood Nights–it’s at all times a sleeper in the course of the vacation season. Identical goes for Sundown Boulevard, however that’s as a result of just about the entire substantive choices have been on this space of the park.
Solely small pockets of Disney’s Hollywood Studios felt like they have been open for enterprise, a lot much less actively celebrating Christmas. Once more, it is a common ole DHS downside, nevertheless it’s amplified whenever you cut back the park capability and fake there’s a celebration taking place. It simply didn’t have the power.
Trip Wait Instances – Apart from Slinky Canine Sprint and Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance, each attraction seemed to be a close to walk-on. Slinky Canine Sprint did have a line (perhaps ~10-15 minute precise wait till the final hour) and Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance used a digital queue earlier than breaking down for a bit.
I didn’t do any rides as a result of brief period of the occasion, however this was positively a vibrant spot of Disney Jollywood Nights. Because of variations in demographics and folks steering away from a number of the underwhelming choices, I’d anticipate attraction waits to extend throughout subsequent occasions. They nonetheless ought to be manageable and much better than a traditional day, although.
Too A lot Friction – It is likely to be attainable to learn the above and say that it sounds rather a lot like After Hours at Disney’s Hollywood Studios. And maybe that’s a good level. Having performed After Hours at DHS, I feel even that has a greater power than Disney Jollywood Nights, with the park feeling principally alive because of a mixture of visitors, characters, and free refreshment spots higher distributed all through the park.
Regardless, the important thing distinction between the respective occasions is friction. We’ve advisable Disney After Hours up to now as a result of it’s a quasi-VIP occasion that removes all friction from the common expertise and provides visitors the run of the park. Wanting doing a VIP tour, it makes folks really feel particular. You don’t must hassle with reserving Lightning Lanes, Cellular Order, or any of the limitations that usually get in the way in which of an important day at DHS. Stroll as much as an ODV and also you’re handed free* tender drinks, ice cream, popcorn, and so forth. (*Included with admission.)
Though they may appear comparable in some methods, Disney Jollywood Nights is the other of that. As a substitute of eradicating friction, it discovered new and creative methods to introduce it. Traces for issues that wouldn’t usually have traces, refreshments not included with admission, confusion about how numerous venues might be accessed, and so on.
Sure, it’s true that each have shorter traces for sights. However that’s the place the similarities start and finish.
Disney Holidays in Hollywood – That is an all-new stage present impressed by the glitz and glamour of classic Hollywood TV specials—with a up to date twist and a few vacation magic—at Theater of the Stars, Disney’s personal Hollywood Bowl-inspired venue.
In response to the corporate, Holidays in Hollywood is an opportunity to see the vacations by a contemporary lens on this star-studded sequence of jolly vignettes. Holidays in Hollywood options appearances from particular visitor stars, together with Kermit the Frog, Miss Piggy, Tiana, Belle, Minnie Mouse and Mickey Mouse—accompanied by a proficient forged of singers, dancers and jazz musicians.
I completely beloved Holidays in Hollywood! A lot in order that I want I might’ve seen it greater than as soon as. The performances have been improbable, and though I’d’ve beloved extra Muppets, everybody else was improbable. Particularly, dancing Minnie and Mickey Mouse did an excellent job. Throughout improbable choreography, music, staging–every thing.
I do want Disney gave extra room for the classic Hollywood TV particular framing system room to “breathe.” This was a improbable concept, and an important nod to the old fashioned type of the Disney MGM Studios, nevertheless it didn’t fairly absolutely click on. (So maybe completely in step with the OG park’s method!) I additionally perceive that Disney solely desires stage exhibits to be so lengthy, and this was already actually meaty.
I’d put Holidays in Hollywood in the identical tier because the Hocus Pocus or Very Merriest stage exhibits on the Halloween and Christmas events in Magic Kingdom. It will in all probability be #3 on that record, nevertheless it’s a detailed name. Regardless, being in the identical league as these is a win.
What’s This? Tim Burton’s The Nightmare Earlier than Christmas Sing-Alongside – In response to the corporate, it is a probability to hitch Jack Skellington at Hyperion Theater for a dreamlike journey impressed by Tim Burton’s The Nightmare Earlier than Christmas.
Sing together with the Pumpkin King to beloved songs from the movie as you observe 2 pals on a larger-than-life journey. You’ll uncover the peculiar magic of marvel in unlikely locations, conquer the Oogie Boogie man himself and keep curious when issues should not fairly as they appear.
On condition that I’m a really cool (allegedly) grownup man over the age of 12 years previous, I’ve zero use for sing-alongs. I don’t get the choice to make a extremely top quality present…after which flip it right into a sing-along. It will be like if Cirque du Soleil, for some cause, referred to as on the viewers to carry out the acrobatics.
A few of you would possibly love sing-alongs for no matter cause–fantastic, that’s your prerogative–however judging by the close to silence of the viewers throughout my exhibiting, my viewpoint is seemingly the prevailing one.
With that caveat, What’s This? was approach higher than it had any proper to be. The silent performers have been improbable, seeing the Jack Skellington puppet in a theater setting is superior, and Oogie Boogie stole the present. What’s This? ended up being the nice shock of the occasion for me. It wasn’t nearly as good as Holidays in Hollywood, however I anticipated to like that. As somebody who hates sing-alongs and is detached to all issues Tim Burton, I used to be stunned to take pleasure in this a lot.
What’s This? additionally underscores that there’s simply as a lot at Disney Jollywood Nights for youths as for adults. Of the worthwhile choices, the argument might be made that this occasion was truly extra kid-friendly than adult-oriented.
Jingle Bell, Jingle BAM! – This nighttime spectacular returns to Hollywood Studios solely throughout Disney Jollywood Nights. In response to the corporate, it options heartwarming vacation moments from favourite Disney movies are delivered to life on the façade of the park’s iconic Chinese language Theater. It’s a surprising show of fireworks, lasers, lights, projections and merry music.
I’m not the world’s largest Jingle Bell, Jingle BAM fan. I don’t adore it or hate it, however I do assume it’s extremely lame that: 1) this present wasn’t introduced again for normal every day operations the final couple of years, and; 2) a brand new nighttime spectacular wasn’t created that higher match the occasion. Jingle Bell, Jingle BAM looks like an afterthought. It’s as if Disney knew the above choices weren’t sufficient, so that they recycled an previous present and tacked it on.
My Evening in a Nutshell
My crew was laser-focused on becoming a member of the digital queue for Jazzy Holidays at Brown Derby to begin the occasion. Having been across the block with Walt Disney World, we knew this was going to be a critical difficulty. And it was. Regardless, pace technique labored and we scored spots within the digital queue for this intimate lounge.
We additionally knew that the ten minute estimated wait despatched out to everybody within the digital queue was full nonsense and 100% the results of a system concurrently servicing so many simultaneous requests. Not my first rodeo with Disney IT, both. Accordingly, we made a direct beeline to Twilight Soiree on the Tip Prime Membership quite than ready for Jazzy Holidays to type itself out.
We have been among the many first visitors outdoors the Tower of Terror reward store, and had a entrance row spot for the primary set of the band that carried out on stage. After watching their full set, we went to the Theater of the Stars for the Holidays in Hollywood present. Proper as seating for this started, we have been referred to as again to Brown Derby presenting the dilemma of whether or not to bounce or hope they’d seat us late for Jazzy Holidays.
Our calculation was that many different visitors can be in the identical boat as us and, if this have been an everyday digital queue, late arrivals can be accommodated. If we have been incorrect, oh properly, we’d miss Jazzy Holidays. We returned to Brown Derby instantly after the present, and have been right–we have been seated after a brief wait.
At Brown Derby, we ordered virtually instantly and in addition requested our checks when the meals arrived. We managed to see many of the pianist’s full set, however our expertise with Jazzy Holidays at Brown Derby was most positively rushed. It’s fairly uncommon to have a counter service meal that shortly, not to mention Signature Restaurant!
Following that, I did a fast lap of the park to take a look at every thing else that I hadn’t seen. Me being me, I bought distracted taking pictures, and needed to (actually) run to the final exhibiting of What’s This? Tim Burton’s The Nightmare Earlier than Christmas Sing-Alongside. I arrived 2 minutes earlier than showtime, and the road was reduce like a dozen visitors after me. Phew.
As I exited the sing-along, it began sprinkling. I headed over to Animation Courtyard to catch the final set of the characters there. By the point I arrived, it had changed into a torrential downpour. The ultimate ~45 minutes of the night time have been kind of washed out, as there have been no contingency plans for the party-specific leisure choices. I went from racing round for first few hours to just about simply standing round to finish the occasion.
Truthfully, I didn’t have a horrible expertise at Disney Jollywood Nights. An excessive amount of of it was a letdown for me, personally, however my night time went approach higher than the common visitors with whom I spoke on the bus journey again to the resort and in the course of the days that adopted. I additionally acknowledge that I knew what to anticipate (and concern!), and that tremendously knowledgeable my decisions to attenuate issues. This assessment is from the attitude of a median attendee, who wouldn’t have identified to make the identical decisions as me. (If everybody did what I did, my method wouldn’t have labored!)
The place Disney Jollywood Nights Goes From Right here
Lastly, we wish to shortly focus on the place Disney Jollywood Nights goes from right here for these attending the occasion this yr. The excellent news is that Walt Disney World is aware of there’s an issue, and that this occasion didn’t go as deliberate.
However that doesn’t imply they’ve an answer. Once more, all of this was straightforward to foresee, which is exactly why we wrote an article pointing to potential pitfalls again in June. That Walt Disney World was caught flat-footed demonstrates a disappointing lack of institutional information and reminiscence, in addition to a failure of creativeness.
It’s attainable they hand waive away the night time one points as rising pains or the “fault” of influencers, bloggers, and vloggers who didn’t “correctly” distribute themselves all through the park. Assuming for the sake of argument that’s true (it isn’t), that solely shifts the difficulty—shorter traces for meals & beverage (which weren’t something to put in writing house about) and longer traces for rides and exhibits.
That additionally makes the very large assumption that the primary social gathering didn’t have already got a decrease capability cap than subsequent nights. That’s not an assumption I’d make! It will be regular observe for a primary of its type occasion like this to have a considerably decrease attendance restrict for night time one, in order that Walt Disney World might ease into issues, seeing potential downside factors, making changes and studying as they go.
It could appear to be night time one was already considerably oversold and couldn’t presumably get any busier, however there’s at all times the maintain my beer chance of even worse crowds on future nights. Once more, I’d completely anticipate wait occasions for meals & drinks and merchandise to enhance–I’d not anticipate that to be the case for the stage exhibits and rides, although. I’d think about traces will worsen for each as subsequent attendees adjustment expectations and priorities.
There are some low-hanging fruit fixes—extra bartenders, absolutely staffing the occasion, having contingency plans for rain. Nevertheless, there’s rather a lot that it’s tough to think about will get addressed till 2024. The vibe of Disney Jollywood Nights isn’t immediately going to alter, empty lands received’t immediately have leisure, and so they aren’t going to flesh out the substance of something.
In the end, it’s tough for us to advocate Disney Jollywood Nights as-is to the common visitor in search of a Christmas time particular occasion. There are area of interest circumstances the place it might need attraction, however even these are a bit far fetched given the entire ready and timing. Our view is that this occasion will not be definitely worth the cash, and if you realize us, you realize we’re large suckers for Walt Disney World particular occasions.
Until you’re okay with an After Hours occasion (minus the free meals) and perhaps a little bit of Christmas leisure, it is best to keep on with Mickey’s Very Merry Christmas Celebration this yr. The Magic Kingdom occasion has truly gotten higher this yr because of decrease crowds, making it the straightforward advice for us.
Ending this assessment on a constructive be aware, Disney Jollywood Nights does have potential and I’m truly optimistic about its future. As foolish as which may sound after the majority of this assessment, hear me out. The bones of this occasion–the issues that price some huge cash to develop and are the most important attracts–are improbable. Bits and items are actually good, and there are kernels of nice concepts which are simply incomplete and wish extra time (and cash) to incubate.
The artistic aspect of Disney Jollywood Nights (properly, minus Ollie…undecided what they have been pondering there) is essentially improbable. The 2 stage exhibits have been excellent, and might be wonderful with minor tweaks. The animating concepts behind each of the lounges are good, they simply should be fleshed out and given more healthy budgets.
For probably the most half, it was the operational aspect that fell aside, and all of that’s fixable. I’m extremely assured that there’s a worthwhile occasion buried in Jollywood Nights, and I actually hope the great concepts and leisure dwell on to a brand new iteration of a Christmas social gathering at Disney’s Hollywood Studios. However it’s virtually definitely not going to occur in 2023. At greatest, the obvious downside factors might be addressed.
Regardless, I’d anticipate Disney Jollywood Nights to return in 2024. Probably with a distinct identify if the present ‘model’ is deemed too poisonous, and hopefully in expanded kind and even rebranded as an After Hours occasion (with free refreshments!). Walt Disney World clearly invested some huge cash in growing and advertising and marketing Jollywood Nights, and I can’t think about it’ll break even after a single yr. Right here’s hoping they repair the issue factors and the brand new or reworked occasion is healthier for Christmas 2024!
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Have you ever attended Disney Jollywood Nights? If that’s the case, what was your expertise? For individuals who have already got tickets to the occasion, what do you intend to concentrate on in the course of the occasion? After studying evaluations, will you buy social gathering tickets for Disney Jollywood Nights? Suppose the potential positives outweigh the negatives, or vice-versa? What has you excited in regards to the occasion? What has you involved? When you’re planning to attend, will you achieve this as a substitute of Mickey’s Very Merry Christmas Celebration or along with it? Do you agree or disagree with our assessment? Any questions we might help you reply? Listening to your suggestions–even whenever you disagree with us–is each attention-grabbing to us and useful to different readers, so please share your ideas beneath within the feedback!